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Embedded CSS Framework Blueprint ?

#101 User is offline   schmunk 

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:04 AM

Gumby's navigation is buggy on Safari.
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#102 User is offline   Haensel 

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:37 AM

True. It's buggy. At least on mobile safari
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#103 User is offline   Haensel 

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:07 AM

I really hate to heat things up here but discussions about functionality easily become "academic" in a way that they are theoretical. If functionality would be the main reason why people are choosing stuff we would've used Betamax, not VHS, Ambisonics, not Dolby Surround, SACDs instead of CDs or MiniDisc instead of crappy MP3s (at least in the early 00's). So why didn't they succeed? At the beginning it was bad marketing and then it became a compatibility problem. "Just bought this awesome Blur album, wanna listen? Poor lad, don't have a MiniDisc recorder here to hand it over" ;)

In our case a lot of people (designers and developers) are using Bootstrap because it is so well known, not because it is far superior. It's not about functionality but popularity and therefore more people are likely to know how to tweak it to fit their needs. There are people claiming that ColdFusion needs far less code than PHP to do the same things. That might be true but it wouldn't be a valid argument for us against PHP would it?

I also have my issues with Bootstrap using "obstrusive Javascript" here and then but there are ways around that.

What about only bundling the most vital Bootstrap components with Yii? It doesn't have to be the whole thing.
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#104 User is offline   jacmoe 

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:18 AM

I think you are mixing technology with trends.

CSS, HTML and PHP are technologies.

I don't care much what the Yii team chooses.
I have a feeling that they will go for Bootstrap, unfortunately (IMO) - I can live with that.

Would have been refreshing if they didn't, but this seems to be a fight you can't win.

I would grab the best bits from Foundation, Bootstrap,HTML Kickstart, Gumpy and Responsive.gs.
Everyone is familar with css, html and javascript.
It doesn't really matter, since it's the same technology.

What happened to 'Dare to be different' ? ;)

Take for instance Kickstart from http://www.99lime.com/ - I would throw in a responsive grid, and then it already beats Bootstrap squarely in the knackers.

I just find it really ironic that they'll choose Bootstrap over Foundation or another option as it's the least flexible and most intrusive solution.

This topic is very opinionated - and I better leave the topic before people start calling me names, and worse. :P
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#105 User is offline   qiang 

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:02 PM

*
POPULAR

Thank you all for this enlightening discussion. My current vague idea is that we will enhance the webapp command so that it allows you to choose from one of several premade skeleton applications and generate the starting code for you. Among these premade applications, we will choose to use one CSS framework (likely to be bootstrap). The design of the webapp command will also allow people to plug in skeleton apps made by 3rd party.

For the core code, we will try to be independent of any specific css framework. Instead, we may release individual packages for popular css frameworks.
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#106 User is offline   jacmoe 

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:05 PM

If familiarity is a concern, consider using something based on 960.gs - that's the mother of all grids.

However, I trust that you guys will come up with something really great. :)
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#107 User is offline   schmunk 

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:44 AM

@qiang: That's what we need! But I've one more thing ... please consider a feature for using multiple themes within a single application, see this post this post for details. Then it will be perfect and not so ugly like my current hack to switch theme with a theme ;)
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#108 User is offline   fsb 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:37 AM

View Postschmunk, on 29 May 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

@qiang: That's what we need! But I've one more thing ... please consider a feature for using multiple themes within a single application, see this post this post for details. Then it will be perfect and not so ugly like my current hack to switch theme with a theme ;)


This is an important requirement.
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#109 User is offline   rapidtransit440 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:37 PM

After spending time with Bootstrap and Foundation... The buttons and tabs are excellent junk the rest. I spent more time trying to think of ways to work around the limitations and I was adding double to triple the amount of markup :blink:
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#110 User is offline   champico 

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 06:02 AM

I tried both Foundation and Bootstrap 2, I'm currently using bootstrap(Yii-bootstrap extension) for the backend of the Yii site 'im creating and it helps a lot.

What I feel about the 2 frameworks is, Bootstrap is great mainly for backend or web applications, and foundation for frontend and websites as it doesn't "get in your way" like bootstrap.
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#111 User is offline   Blizz 

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 04:06 AM

View Postchampico, on 17 June 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

What I feel about the 2 frameworks is, Bootstrap is great mainly for backend or web applications, and foundation for frontend and websites as it doesn't "get in your way" like bootstrap.


Couldn't agree more.
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#112 User is offline   ekerazha 

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:14 AM

Zurb Foundation 3.0 alpha 1 will be released on Friday, June 29 http://www.zurb.com/...nd-release-off-
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#113 User is offline   jacmoe 

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:31 PM

Great news Ekerazha - I am intrigued by the off-canvas layouts, so even if I might not use Foundation 3, I will definitely look into the work of LukeW et al. :)
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#114 User is offline   ekerazha 

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:38 AM

View Postjacmoe, on 24 June 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Great news Ekerazha - I am intrigued by the off-canvas layouts, so even if I might not use Foundation 3, I will definitely look into the work of LukeW et al. :)


Off-canvas layouts look nice, however I found the transitions to be a bit laggy on the Android ICS browser of my Google Nexus S (they are a bit smoother on Firefox for Android 14.0 Beta).
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#115 User is offline   rAWTAZ 

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:56 AM

View Postqiang, on 28 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

For the core code, we will try to be independent of any specific css framework. Instead, we may release individual packages for popular css frameworks.

This is definately the most important thing. The first thing I do the few times I've run `yiic webapp` is to rip out the CSS framework.
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#116 User is offline   rAWTAZ 

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:56 AM

View Postqiang, on 28 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

For the core code, we will try to be independent of any specific css framework. Instead, we may release individual packages for popular css frameworks.

This is definately the most important thing here. The first thing I do the few times I've run `yiic webapp` is to rip out the CSS framework.
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#117 User is offline   Psih 

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:50 AM

Same here - default CSS framework is ripped out for front-end stuff every single time. I use it only for administration panels as it's logical since 90% of them are CRUD generated :)
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#118 User is offline   schmunk 

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 08:51 AM

Hey guys, nobody else uses themes for switching CSS frameworks?
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#119 User is offline   ekerazha 

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:51 PM

View Postschmunk, on 28 June 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Hey guys, nobody else uses themes for switching CSS frameworks?


Why? Usually you pick a framework and you use that.

P.S.
Sorry Germans ;D
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#120 User is offline   jacmoe 

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:57 AM

View Postschmunk, on 28 June 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Hey guys, nobody else uses themes for switching CSS frameworks?


I do this all the time. :)

Sass/Compass FTW.
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